PS3 YLOD

[rod905]

Hi all, maybe someone helps me. I read Takeshi guides and he seems very good and expert. My problem is my ps3 do not start and gives ylod then after many times of trying it starts and DOES NOT STOP AGAIN. If I switch it off and try to start it again it will start with no ylod. When I switch it off it does not go into solid red light but goes to flashing red.I switch it off by  the controller.What can the problem be Takeshi?I was going to reball the RSX chip with a stencil kit that I bought from ebay but maybe this is not the problem?Excuse me but I do not speak German but I had to post here because I was impressed by Takeshi level of expertise in his guide and wished to ask to him

Translated german
Hallo alle vielleicht hilft jemand mir. Ich las Takeshi-Führer, und er scheint sehr gut und Experte.Mein Problem ist mein ps3 fangen nicht an und gibt ylod dann danach oft des Versuchens es fängt an und HÄLT WIEDER NICHT AN. Wenn ich es ausschalte und versuche, es wieder anzufangen, fängt es ohne ylod an. Wenn ich umschalte, tritt es davon in festen roten Licht nicht ein aber geht zur roten Verwahrung. Ich schalte es durch den Kontrolleur aus. Was kann das Problem Takeshi sein? Ich war dabei, den RSX-Span mit einem Matrize-Bastelsatz wiederzuballen, den ich von ebay kaufte aber vielleicht das nicht das Problem ist?Entschuldigen Sie mich, aber ich spreche German nicht, aber ich musste hier dahineilen, weil ich durch das Takeshi Niveau des Gutachtens in seinem Führer beeindruckt wurde und zu ihm fragen mochte

[DoggyDog]

Welcome to our Commnity,

i'm not such a pro like Takeshi (now we'll call him Führer, thats funny in your translation ), but when i read your description, it seems to me that the problem (or solution?) was caused by thermal reasons. Maybe there is still a problem with another BGA, the Cell or sometimes the suthbridge can also have some loosely balls.

Maybe you should reflow your Cell-Processor, this could fix the problem.

[rod905]

Hi, thanks for your input. If I were to do something I will do a reball (I have stencils for cpu,rsx and south bridge) however because that will solve the problem more definitely. However with the symptoms that I mentioned is there a way to pinpoint the source of the problem, Takeshi mentioned onboard fuses and other chips in his guide.

[DoggyDog]

I'm very sure, the reason for your problems are not fuses or other chips. Your console starts after some preheat-time, thats a indication for loosely BGA-balls. Most consoles with this kind of error will get YLOD after some time, your description ist typically for an initiating YLOD in the near future.

If you want pinpoint the real reason on easy way, you should first reflow your cell. If this eliminates the problem, you can be very sure that it was the Cell. And if you are very inspired, you can still do reballing the cell.

If the cell-reflow don't fix the problems, it's still possible that the southbridge has loosly balls (normally this is a very rare case).

[Takeshi]

Welcome! It's no problem, if you don't speak german. You're not the first one posting in english If you understand us and we understand you, it's all fine. I like it, if people from far away post here. Where are you from?


As DoggyDob said already, it seems to be a BGA with a solderjoint failure. But mostly it's the RSX and the RSX could cause this failure as well as the Cell. I would make a reflow of the RSX, apart from that it is not as risky as a reflow of the Cell.

Which model do you have (CECH...)?

Did you ever do a reballing before? If it's your first try, you should make a reflow and not a reballing. It's not easy to reball a BGA which is as big as the RSX or cell. And it's a myth, that reballing is always better than a reflow. If you make es good reflow, it could solve your problem for a long time (addicted from your console or rather their individual demage and your reflow-method). Bad reballing will solve your problem not a bit or not for a long time. If it's your first try, it will be a bad reballing, due to your missing experience, that's normal. I also needed a long time until it worked as it has to be.

[DoggyDog]

Hey, Takeshi you're right!
I missunderstood the first post. I thought, that he already reballed the RSX, but he just bought a reballing-kit on ebay, right? In this case - of course - he should reflow the RSX first. Im sure that would fix the problem 

[Takeshi]

Yes, i understood so. Than we are in complete agreement

[rod905]

Hi all. Takesh, actually I am not from very far away from Germany actually, I am from Malta, that is some 60miles South of Sicily. Yes you di understand correctly I did not reballed the console yet, I am still waiting for the kit to be delivered, as a matter of fact I did not even open the console, it is still with the sony warranty sticker on it. My model is a CECHE 01 (NTSC). So you definitely think its loose solder even if I say that after it (ps3)switches on it does not fail anymore.Doggy dog statement of pre heat time kind of convinced me. Another thing that I must point is that my ps3 is never switching off properly lately.I switch off mostly from the controller and it beeps 3 times and flashes the red led.then i press reset to make it come to solid red again.can this be an indication of something?
Thanks a lot for  your input guys

[Takeshi]

Hi all. Takesh, actually I am not from very far away from Germany actually, I am from Malta, that is some 60miles South of Sicily.

Ah, cool

My model is a CECHE 01 (NTSC).

Ok, that's a v2, for the other people here, the CECHE01 is like our CECHC04.

So you definitely think its loose solder even if I say that after it (ps3)switches on it does not fail anymore.Doggy dog statement of pre heat time kind of convinced me.

Yes, that is "normal". The solderjoints are broken, but by heating up, they get pressed together (I hope this translation is right) and the console works fine. Also possible is the oppsite way, the solderjoints are pressed together while the console is cold and by heating up the solderjoints lose contact.

Another thing that I must point is that my ps3 is never switching off properly lately.I switch off mostly from the controller and it beeps 3 times and flashes the red led.then i press reset to make it come to solid red again.can this be an indication of something?

Hm, strange. It might relate to your YLOD. If it happens also after the reflow, we can still think about it.

[rod905]

Hi Takeshi, you got me a lot into thinking about not reballing the motherboard as I was all ready to go for it. But you surely know a lot about it more than myself. I have some questions though:
(1)If I do a reflow, and it fails (immediately or after some days)and need to do a reball it would be more difficult that doing a reball the first time (with the motherboard never touched before)?
(2)I do not have a jig, now I think thats an important piece of equipment to prevent warping, as you said somewhere else that is the source of the ylod, changes in temp and warping. But I do not feel the need to buy one If I know the positioning (dimensions) of the motherboard I would easily meke one from a piece of flat wood by drilling holes in it (wood) and place screws and spacers to elevate the board. Do you have or maybe provide a link with the measurements of the holes of the ceche motherboard?
(3)In your guide you provided this procedure:
Heat up the whole board from the bottom side until you can barely touch it anymore. Afterwards,
heat up the area where the RSX is located for
- 10 seconds from the bottom side
- 10 seconds from the upper side
- 20s bottom
- 10s upper
- 20s bottom
- 10s upper
- 10s bottom
I can obtain an ir beam (gun) thermometer, Can you suggest temperatures for these steps, as I beleive that would minimize risks a lot.
(4)What is dissolved colophony?is it that important?I am waiting for no clean flux from ebay,is it the same thing?
(5)Everyone on the web seems that like to use artic silver as thermal paste, but I read that are some people who advise against it as it is conductive, what would you advise to use?
(6)I was watching reballing videos and I did not know that you must remove the stencil to heat and melt the balls!Before I thought it is easier because you keep the balls in the stencil and heat everything about(the balls will not be blown away if they are in the stencil)Now the stencils that I bought are direct heat, does it mean that you heat the stencil altogether with the balls in it or they will stick to the stencil that way?it(the stencil) is supposed to be made of stainless steel.

[DoggyDog]

Hi rod905,

i think i'm able to answer some of your questions.

1)
If you don't damage the RSX or the mainboard itself during a reflow, it doesn't matter for a further reball.

2)
A jig is recommend for reballing, because it's important that the mainboard is as flat as possible. If the board bent out of shape during a reball, it can result solderjoint errors after cool down. As far as i know, you can prevent bending if all areas of the board are always at the same temperature. If you can do this, you don't need a jig to hold the board in place.

3)
The temperature observed version to do a re-flow is at the moment only available in German. Maybe the google-translation of this page will help you:
http://translate.google.de/translate?sl=de&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=de&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.trisaster.de%2Fpage%2Findex.php%3Ftopic%3D320&act=url
Please look at the section "Reflow with Temperturmessung", this should help you to do a better quality reflow.

4)
Dissolved colophony is a mixture of natural flux (colophony) and isopropyl alcohol. The colophonium flux is nature based resin and tenacious. If you dissolve some colophony in isopropyl, the mixture will flow between the BGA and mainboard. The isopropyl evaporates after some slight heat-up (max. 50°C) and you have a thin coat colophony under the whole BGA. This will help to fix bad solderjoints.
No clean flux can also do the job, but unfortunately on eBay you'll find more and more bad products. There are flux-mixtures with less than <2% real flux, so if you use it you can also use no flux and got the same result - a bad quality reflow. It's very important and very recommended to use good quality flux to get a working reflow. A good and cheap flux is dissolved colophony.

5)
The conductive Arctic Silver is no risk if you use it as prescribed, but cheaper silicon-based paste does the job as good as expensive paste like Arctic Silver. Takeshi has tested some thermal paste, there are no big differences in temperature.  I use Arctic Silver for years in my PC and the PS3, i had no problems so far. In the future, i will buy some cheaper thermal paste for use in PS3.

6)
This is a special part, it's better if our Führer answer this question himself  . Be aware, i've read that >99% of all persons need a few tries till they got a working reball.

[rod905]

Thanks a lot doggy dog, you are being very helpful
This is colophony?
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Solid-Soldering-Flux-Rosin-Colophony-20g-/320876036622?pt=UK_Home_Garden_PowerTools_SM&hash=item4ab5b3c20e

I guess you mix it with isopropanol or alcohol right?

[Takeshi]

1) Right, you can reball the GPU as before.

2) You need a preheater for reballing and with a big and good preheater you don't need a jig, because the motherboard is complet at the same temperature and it will not warp. I don't use one for reflow or reballing.

3) The tin melts at about 225°C, but at this temperature it is already risky. If you don't pass 215°C, there won't be a damage. But before getting the board at 215°C, you have "temper" the board (I hope it's the right word, the translation said yes ). For this you heat up the board with the preheater up to ~120°C (at the top) and stay at this temperature for one hour. By doing this all whater evaporates, thit prevents popping. Without tempering the board, you only can heat up up to ~200°C.

5) Artic Silver isn't cunductive, I measured it. But as DoggyDog said, I use cheap thermal paste, because there is only a very little difference between very cheep and very expensive paste. And a cheep paste doesn't rise the risk of YLOD, because the temperatures are the same, because the fan adjusts the temperature, if th cooling is not the best.

6) If you have a small stencil, you can heat it up with the balls. After that it will not be easy to remove the stencil, but with a little isopropyl it will be a lot easier.

[rod905]

temper as I am getting it you mean heating the board to make it more 'workable' by making all the same temperature not cold and hot areas (risk of warping)

tempering as such is a term used in mechanical engineering (my call) in heat treatment of steel. this is first hardened then tempered to reduce brittleness (eg chisels and swords)maybe it does not interest you but just exchange of general information

[rod905]

I know that I have almost 'hijacked' this forum and you are having much patience in my regards, but I have another question. As I explained in my 1st post my ps3 manages to switch on and then does not stop anymore. Maybe because I mainly play a game (fifa  13) that does not load the gpu much?In that case just keep in mind that I will definitely get god of war next March and I think that will load the GPU. However to my question:what will you do in my place? reflow it now or wait until the system is completely gone that is does not switch at all. All I need is to the system to hold on until ps4 is released or maybe better still about 6 months from its release (its supposed to come out this November).So would you reflow now or when the system is completely flat?Thanks again